GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF IT, BUT SHOULDN’T WE HAVE LAWS AS WELL?
COMPILATION AND COMMENTARY
BY LUCY WARNER
NOVEMBER 8, 2017


CONNECTIONS DO EXIST BETWEEN THIS SHOOTER AND THE CHURCH.

“PRESSED ABOUT PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE AND KEEPING WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF DANGEROUS PEOPLE, ABBOTT SAID ‘EVIL EXISTS IN THIS WORLD.’" THIS KIND OF STATEMENT IS MADE TIME AFTER TIME BY RELIGIOUS PROTESTANTS TODAY, AND PERHAPS CATHOLICS AND JEWS ALSO, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT OUR REASON TO HAVE RELIGION IS TO SECURE A SPOT IN HEAVEN DURING OUR AFTERLIFE, AND THAT HUMAN EARTHLY EFFORTS SUCH AS REDUCING THE NUMBER OF HAND GUNS IN THE WORLD, AND ESPECIALLY ASSAULT RIFLES, ARE BETWEEN USELESS AND HARMFUL. TRUMP HIMSELF YESTERDAY SPOKE THE PARTY LINE THAT IF “GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS” AREN’T AROUND JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE, EVEN IN CHURCH, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO ONE TO STOP KELLEY, WHICH IS CODE FOR THE VIEW THAT IF PEOPLE DON’T HAVE ABSOLUTELY UNLIMITED ACCESS TO AND USE OF GUNS, OUR SOCIETY WOULD FALL APART. THE ENEMY OF GOODNESS ISN’T EVIL IN SO MANY CASES, BUT GULLIBILITY, IGNORANCE AND GREED.

THAT FUNDAMENTALIST CONCEPT OF THOUGHT AS BEING A LACK OF FAITH, IS AS PRIMITIVE IN MY VIEW AS IS ANYTHING IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, AND IT STIFLES INDIVIDUAL INVOLVEMENT IN SOCIETAL VIRTUE; WHEREAS THE ETHICAL HUMANISM OF MANY AGNOSTICS IS ENLIGHTENED AND ENCOURAGES VIRTUE AND POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT IN A TERRIBLY PRACTICAL WORLD. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT A LOVE OF VIRTUE AND OF THE MANY LIFEFORMS ON OUR EARTH, ESPECIALLY HUMANS, IS NOT “RELIGIOUS” BUT “PHILOSOPHICAL.”

IT’S BASED ON RATIONAL THOUGHT AND EMPATHY. IT PROMOTES GOOD LAWS, GOOD COMMUNICATION AND THE HABITUAL ACQUISITION OF EDUCATION. RELIGION, TOO OFTEN, PROMOTES THE OPPOSITE OF GOOD AND A RETREAT FROM USING OUR BRAINS FOR LOGICAL THOUGHT. DOING THAT IS OFTEN CONSIDERED SINFUL. IN MY VIEW, POGROMS AGAINST A GROUP OR INFLICTING UNKIND TREATMENT OF ALL KINDS ON SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF YOUR VERY, VERY SPECIFIC GROUP OF CHRISTIANS IS A MUCH GREATER SIN. PRAYING IS GOOD, BUT DOING SOMETHING USEFUL ALONG WITH IT IS BETTER. I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED THE QUAKERS BECAUSE, FAR FROM ESCHEWING EDUCATION AND THOUGHT, THEY ENCOURAGE IT AT EVERY TURN, AND SPEAK OUT IN POLITICAL ACTIVISM ON ALL ISSUES. THEY ARE BRIGHT, PHILOSOPHICAL AND FULLY “CHRISTIAN.” I AM OF THE PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF THAT “FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.”

IF WE ARE GOING TO BE TRUTHFUL, HOWEVER, THE REAL GIST OF THE SITUATION HERE IN THE USA, IS THAT ANY VIEWPOINT THAT WORKS AGAINST A TOTALLY FREE USE OF AND HOARDING OF GUNS, AS ABBOTT WAS IMPLYING, IS ILLOGICAL, UNHELPFUL, AND IN THE CASE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, CORRUPT. RACHEL MADDOW A NIGHT OR TWO AGO SAID THAT THE ARGUMENT AGAINST GUN CONTROL IS ALMOST ALWAYS THAT EVEN WITH IT IN PLACE, EVIL AND MURDER WILL STILL EXIST. IN OTHER WORDS, IN A SITUATION LIKE WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN THIS COUNTRY, A PARTIAL CURE IS ENTIRELY WORTHLESS.

THAT’S WHERE I SIMPLY CANNOT AGREE. I WANT GUNS, BUT NOT ASSAULT RIFLES, HUGE MAGAZINES OF AMMUNITION, OR SILENCERS (WHAT POSSIBLE USE IS THERE OF A SILENCER EXCEPT TO COVER UP MURDER). A LEGAL VIEWPOINT LIKE THIS PRODUCES PEOPLE (ALMOST ALWAYS IGNORANT YOUNG MEN) WHO THINK -- TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY THINK AT ALL -- THAT USING GUNS FOR A PURPOSE SUCH AS GETTING ONES’ REVENGE ON A WHOLE CONGREGATION OF WORSHIPPERS USING A HIDEOUS WEAPON OF MURDER IS A-OKAY.

I THINK SOME OF THAT IS DUE TO SOME TYPE OF INSANITY, BUT THE REST IS DUE TO THE VIEWPOINTS THAT ARE ROAMING THE DARK STREETS AT NIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT RESTRAINT – THAT MURDER IS FINE IF IT ISN’T YOUR GROUP, FAMILY, FRIENDS THAT ARE THE VICTIMS. AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH IS THE ONLY LAW TO SUCH PEOPLE, VENGEANCE IS JUSTICE, AND THEY ARE NOT ALL “INSANE,” EITHER. IF YOU TEACH A CHILD TO STEAL BY STEALING IN FRONT OF HIM AT THE GROCERY STORE, HE WILL LEARN WHAT YOU HAVE TAUGHT HIM. THAT IS CALLED AMORALITY, AND IT’S AS COMMON AS GRASS. THE KEY DIFFERENCE IS THE EXTREMELY VIOLENT TREND IN SOME PEOPLE RATHER THAN A SIMPLY LACK OF ETHICS. THEY DON’T STOP AT THEFT.

EVERYBODY WHO IS HONEST, KNOWS THAT THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION IS BEHIND THAT VIEWPOINT PURELY FOR THEIR OWN FINANCIAL FULFILLMENT, AND I REALLY HATE TO SEE PEOPLE LIKE A GOVERNOR OF A STATE FOLLOW THE SAME BELIEF SYSTEM (OR PROFESS TO. AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE I QUESTION WHAT BUSINESSMEN AND POLITICIANS ACTUALLY DO “BELIEVE.” OUR POLITICAL LEADERS NEED TO BE EDUCATED, GENTLE, AND PROMOTE A CIVILIZED SOCIETY. I DON’T CARE ABOUT THEIR RELIGION, BUT I CARE A LOT ABOUT THEIR ETHICAL POSITION. I DON’T WANT THIEVES AND LIARS OR WORSE IN OFFICE. I DON’T THINK COPPING OUT ON A SUBJECT LIKE GUN CONTROL IS ACCEPTABLE, AND IT CERTAINLY DOES NO GOOD. PEOPLE WHO LOVE THE WAYS OF EVIL WILL BE ENCOURAGED BY THIS APPARENT PERMISSION FROM THE HEIGHTS OF OUR GOVERNMENT TO HOARD MORE AND MORE GUNS AND FORM THEIR PERSONALITY AROUND SHOOTING AND KILLING.

ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS IS THE TYPE OF RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY THAT WE FOSTER. THE ENCOURAGEMENT TO STUDY, LEARN, THINK, AND THEN “BELIEVE” IS ALIEN TO MOST AMERICAN CHRISTIANS, WHO CALL THAT KIND OF THING “DEPENDING ON ONES’ OWN WISDOM AND INTELLECT” – A REALLY BAD IDEA -- RATHER THAN ON THE BIBLE AND THE CHURCH LEADERS’ WORDS.

A PRIMARY USE OF OUR MIND IS TOO OFTEN FORBIDDEN OR NEARLY SO, AND THAT LEADS TO A DEGENERATION OF THE ABILITY TO THINK AND LEARN ANYTHING NEW. THAT MEANS THAT WHEN AN ISSUE REQUIRING DISCRIMINATION COMES UP -- LIKE TREATING MENTAL PATIENTS DIFFERENTLY THAN WE WOULD SIMPLE CRIMINAL TRANSGRESSORS OF THE RULES/LAWS OF SOCIETY DUE TO THEIR LACK OF CARING ABOUT OUR FELLOW HUMANS OR FROM AN ACTUAL LOVE OF THE VICIOUS BEHAVIOR -- MANY RELIGIOUS CHRISTIANS WILL VOTE TO EXECUTE THE MENTALLY ILL PERSON RATHER THAN HOSPITALIZING HIM PERMANENTLY, AND WILL LET THE STONE COLD KILLER “SERVE HIS SENTENCE” AND THEN LET HIM OUT.

THOSE HARD, COLD KILLERS ARE USUALLY NOT CURABLE BECAUSE THEY ENJOY THEIR SINS AND CRIMES TOO MUCH, OR THEY ARE WHAT I TEND TO CALL “WARPED.” THEY ARE MENTALLY ILL IN THAT THEY CANNOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE ENOUGH TO REFRAIN FROM ABUSING THEM. OFTEN, THEY HAVE BEEN PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY AND SEXUALLY ABUSED FOR A LONG TIME WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. THEY GROW UP VERY, VERY ANGRY AND CRUEL. BY THAT I MEAN SUCH PEOPLE AS CHILD MOLESTERS, CON ARTISTS, BULLIES, OR BEHAVIOR BASED ON OTHER MALEVOLENT MOTIVATIONS.

I DON’T WANT THE DEATH PENALTY FOR ANYONE, BECAUSE TOO MANY “JOHN DOES” WHO JUST HAPPENED TO BE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME, OR WHO HAVE THE WRONG SKIN COLOR, ARE CONVICTED WHILE BEING TOTALLY INNOCENT. THEY ALSO HAPPEN TO BE THOSE WHO GET THE GREATEST NUMBER OF DEATH SENTENCES. I DO THINK SUCH A PERSON AS KELLY, HOWEVER, SHOULD BE CONFINED WITHOUT CELL PHONE, INTERNET, OR OTHER WAYS OF REACHING OUT TO GET REVENGE. THAT IS WHAT THIS KILLER DEVIN KELLEY DID. HE HATED THAT CHURCH AND WENT IN TO KILL AS MANY OF THEM AS POSSIBLE, WHICH TRAGICALLY WAS A LARGE NUMBER.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-church-shooting-governor-greg-abbott-on-gunman-devin-kelley/
CBS NEWS November 6, 2017, 10:53 AM
Texas governor says "there was a connection" between suspect and church

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott says it appears "there was a connection" between the shooting suspect Devin Patrick Kelley and the Sutherland Springs church where 26 people were killed on Sunday. The investigation into the suspect's motive is ongoing.

"I think the bottom line is, this was not a random act of shooting," Abbott said Monday on "CBS This Morning." "I don't think this church was picked out at random. I think there was purpose and intent that Devin Kelley had in showing up at this particular location."

Texas church shooting investigation proceeds as community mourns - live updates

About 20 others were wounded in the attack, which was the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history. After a chase, police found the 26-year-old suspect dead inside his vehicle. Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackitt told "CBS This Morning" on Monday it appeared to be "a self-inflicted gunshot wound."

The sheriff said Kelley's ex-wife and former in-laws occasionally attended the church.

Kelley served at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 to 2014. He was court martialed in 2012 on charges he assaulted his spouse and child. Kelley was sentenced to 12 months confinement and received a bad conduct discharge.

Abbott said current laws should have prevented Kelley from purchasing a gun.

"I can tell you that before he made this purchase, he tried to get a gun permit in the state of Texas and was denied that permit. And so under the current system of federal law, he should have [sic] prevented from being able to make this purchase," Abbott said. "How that got through the cracks, I don't have that information, but it's important to understand these are the types of facts and issues that investigators continue to look into, and we will be able to have clear answers to those questions in the coming days."

Kelley was denied "because of either answers or the lack thereof that were provided in his request to get a Texas gun permit," Abbott added.

Abbott called Kelley's motivations "completely deranged" and added he "had mental health issues, apparently" before he enlisted in the Air Force, but did not provide evidence. He pointed to Kelley's discharge from the Air Force, reports "loosely made, not confirmed about some mental health issues," and "violent tendencies."

Pressed about preventing gun violence and keeping weapons out of the hands of dangerous people, Abbott said "evil exists in this world."

"I'm going to use the words of the citizens of Sutherland Springs themselves, and that is, they want to work together for love to overcome evil, and you do that by working with God," Abbott said.

Deadly church shooting in Texas
Deadly church shooting in Texas
© 2017 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.



KELLEY ATTENDED THE CHURCH WITHIN THE LAST WEEK

VIDEO ONLY

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/sports/killer-attended-church-festival-days-before-shooting/vp-BBEICmY
Killer Attended Church Festival Days Before Shooting
Duration: 00:28 November 8, 2017

Five days before killing 26 people inside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Devin Patrick Kelley rubbed elbows with the congregation at the church's annual fall festival. Attendees were surprised to see him with his children at the event—which included a bouncy house and petting zoo—since he was feuding with his mother-in-law from his most recent marriage in 2014.



THIS ARTICLE SHOWS THE HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS AT THE CHURCH. THE HOPEFULNESS OF THE MEMBERS AT HIS ATTENDANCE IS ALMOST TOO MUCH FOR ME TO DWELL ON, BUT I THINK IT IS A GREATER PART OF THE STORY THAN HOW MANY BULLETS HE USED. THIS, TO ME, IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT RATHER THAN BLAMING “SINNERS” SUCH AS THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/11/1014306-texas-church-members-welcomed-killer-just-5-days-attacked/
THE DECLARATION
Texas Church Members Welcomed Their Killer Just 5 Days Before He Attacked Them
BY TRE GOINS-PHILLIPS
NOVEMBER 8, 2017

It was just five days before gunman Devin Patrick Kelley opened fire on the congregation in Sutherland Springs, Texas, that the members of the small church welcomed him in under much different circumstances.

On Sunday, Kelley killed 26 people and injured 30 others. But less than one week before, he brought his children to First Baptist Church's annual fall festival, the Houston Chronicle reported.

Though his attendance wasn't expected given his past troubles with his mother-in-law, Michelle Shields, who attends the church, the congregation still welcomed Kelley with open arms — some even thought he and his family were turning a corner.

“They thought, 'Oh, this is good. This is progress,'” Sutherland Springs resident Tambria Read told the Chronicle, noting Shields told her she was excited to see Kelley brought her grandchildren to the festival voluntarily.

Read went on to describe the church's attendants as “very loving” and “nonjudgmental,” so it's no surprise they were so open to welcoming Kelley and his kids.

“If [Kelley] had had concerns or issues and spoken with the clergy — they're nonjudgmental,” Read explained. “They would have helped him deal with his issues and helped him try to get focused.”

But none of that ended up mattering to the psychologically troubled 26-year-old shooter, who had reportedly sent threatening text messages to Shields not long before he attacked those gathered for the Sunday morning worship service.

Among those Kelley killed were eight members of a family that spanned three generations — the Holcombe family. As it turns out, Crystal Holcombe and two of her children were at the same festival Kelley attended just days before they were murdered:

Photograph showing members on the church Facebook page – see “First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Facebook”.

As IJR previously reported, the Holcombe family has established a GoFundMe account, hoping to raise money to help offset the enormous funeral, travel, and counseling expenses surviving members are now facing.

So far, the page has raised more than half a million dollars.